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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:22 pm 
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miswitchiepoo wrote:
I have question about Alice. The vampires having super acute hearing, why didn't Alice hear James on the cell phone talking to Bella? The Cullens were being careful about using the cell phones because they feared James and Victoria would her them ? Did I miss something ?


Steph has answered this, IIRC she heard Bella's mom and then tuned out the conversation. She had her mind on other things...

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:41 am 
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crazywoman wrote:
I have wondered about that too, and after reading so many of Stephenie's responses to Alice's special abilities, I think it was because Bella didn't decide she was going to do it until right before she did it, and then she took off so fast, it was too late. I am pretty sure Alice figured it out pretty quick though, or they would have never made it to save her. It does mention in the book that Alice was focused on Edward, and what James was going to do that she didn't see what Bella was going to do.


I agree. Bella was very careful not to think of what she was going to do, until right before she did. Like she didn't know how she was going to get away from them until she remembered the bathroom. Alice and Jasper knew she was going to do something, that's why it says they kept eyeing her.

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 Post subject: Alice not seeing
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:07 am 
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I think, after I have read up on Alice, that Bella kept it pretty much until the very last minute then took off. Alice really didn't have time to "see" it coming. Just a thought, I am not 100% sure.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 4:57 pm 
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When they were in the hotel room right after Bella finished talking with James on the phone, she came out and Alice was in the middle of having a vision. When Jasper and Bella asked what she was seeing, Alice looked disturbed and just said, "the same room as before" but Bella noticed that she was visibly shaken.
I think Alice was seeing Bella get hurt by James, because Bella had made the decision to go and meet him. She just didn't know HOW yet, so that's why Alice didn't see the way she escaped. Only the consequence of her getting away from them.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:42 pm 
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KellyAnnie wrote:
When they were in the hotel room right after Bella finished talking with James on the phone, she came out and Alice was in the middle of having a vision. When Jasper and Bella asked what she was seeing, Alice looked disturbed and just said, "the same room as before" but Bella noticed that she was visibly shaken.
I think Alice was seeing Bella get hurt by James, because Bella had made the decision to go and meet him. She just didn't know HOW yet, so that's why Alice didn't see the way she escaped. Only the consequence of her getting away from them.


Yes, I believe you are correct, Bella did not know HOW YET, Alice only can see what is already thought of, it was a spur of the moment decision...

See Bella is somewhat like Victoria, in that she has a knack for Getting Away.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:46 am 
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Joanne Maria wrote:
KellyAnnie wrote:
When they were in the hotel room right after Bella finished talking with James on the phone, she came out and Alice was in the middle of having a vision. When Jasper and Bella asked what she was seeing, Alice looked disturbed and just said, "the same room as before" but Bella noticed that she was visibly shaken.
I think Alice was seeing Bella get hurt by James, because Bella had made the decision to go and meet him. She just didn't know HOW yet, so that's why Alice didn't see the way she escaped. Only the consequence of her getting away from them.


Yes, I believe you are correct, Bella did not know HOW YET, Alice only can see what is already thought of, it was a spur of the moment decision...

See Bella is somewhat like Victoria, in that she has a knack for Getting Away.


Ok, I had to revamp chapter 22 Hide-and-Seek. Here is what I found:
"Alice's eyes were confused, but — I saw to my relief— not suspicious. She must be attributing the change in her vision to some maneuver of the tracker's rather than a betrayal by me."

Alice didn't suspect Bella, so she didn't have a reason to watch Bella's future. She was watching everyone else, especially the tracker.

"...my head scanning for what I really wanted. And there it was, around the corner, out of Alice's sharp sight: the level-three ladies' room." ... "I remembered the time I had gotten lost from this bathroom, because it had two exits."

What I got out of this was that Bella didn't know how she would get away from them until she saw the bathroom, so that was when the decision to leave was made. If Alice was watching Bella, she wouldn't see that Bella was leaving until then. If Alice saw this, her and Jasper would run at "normal" speed, not to draw attention to themselves, to catch Bella. Bella ran out of the airport so fast and made so many spur of the moment decisions (like jumping onto the hotel bus) that Alice's head was probably spinning.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:06 pm 
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I think Stephenie explained this somewhere, but it has been so long I couldn't for the life of me tell you where.

Alice wasn't watching for Bella's future...she was watching for James's. He had already made the decision to go to Bella's house, and instruct her to go the the studio. Alice was so wrapped up in what James would do to bring the horrible vision to life, that she didn't even consider that the critical point may actually lay with Bella, rather than the tracker himself. :D

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PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 3:22 am 
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Marcy wrote:
I think Stephenie explained this somewhere, but it has been so long I couldn't for the life of me tell you where.

Alice wasn't watching for Bella's future...she was watching for James's. He had already made the decision to go to Bella's house, and instruct her to go the the studio. Alice was so wrapped up in what James would do to bring the horrible vision to life, that she didn't even consider that the critical point may actually lay with Bella, rather than the tracker himself. :D


Well said Marcy.

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PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:31 am 
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There is one sentence which nobody has mentioned yet, maybe because it's so subtle. On page 436, when they arrive at the airport, Bella is glad that Edward's plane is arriving in Terminal 4. Why? Well, because it's the largest and most confusing. But there is another reason..and that is... in the next sentence. "And there was a door on level three that might be the only chance". I have to think she was talking about the bathroom with the two exits. So, if she was thinking of that that early....then it makes less sense that Alice didn't see it. The only explanation that makes sense is that Alice wasn't tuned into her yet, or wasn't paying attention to Bella's thoughts at that point. Bella had made the decision to escape, but not exactly HOW she would do it. Of course she had to be able to escape or else we wouldn't have the rest of the book!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Alice did see Bella dead, so she knew something was up. Bella had decided ahead that she was going to get away BUT she didn't decide exactly what until that moment. I think that she thought that Bella would be safe with Jasper and not try anything funny.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 3:33 pm 
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Remember too that Alice isn't perfect. She made a mistake with the trio at the clearing; she knew they were coming, but misjudged their arrival.

I understand that Alice was focused on James' actions, never suspecting that Bella's decision created the vision. I just have to tell myself that Alice doesn't see all. Or that sometimes a writer just has to use whatever they can to keep the plot moving.

Funny though that Alice missed Bella's decision to go to James, but sees her lost in the woods after the newborn war...before Bella made a conscious decision to do anything. (EC pg 396)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 4:15 pm 
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I couldn't see this being discussed anywhere else but if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

I think I understand why Bella was able to get away from Jasper and Alice at the airport and even why Alice did not forsee Bella's plan.

However, after Bella didn't appear from the bathroom after a couple of minutes Jasper and alice would have known what had happened. By then, there would still have been 15 minutes or so before the plane landed, and then by the time Carlilse Edward & Emmett had deboarded (is that a word?? ) the plane I'm guessing there was at least 30 - 45 minutes of time between when Bella went missing until Edward et al would have gone for her.

Why?

Why didn't Alice and Jasper go catch up to Bella at her home? If one had to stay to meet the others then ok why didn't the other one go?

It just doesn't make any sense to me (well other than the fact it makes a great story). It seemed so out of sorts.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:11 pm 
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InLustWithEC wrote:
I couldn't see this being discussed anywhere else but if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

I think I understand why Bella was able to get away from Jasper and Alice at the airport and even why Alice did not forsee Bella's plan.

However, after Bella didn't appear from the bathroom after a couple of minutes Jasper and alice would have known what had happened. By then, there would still have been 15 minutes or so before the plane landed, and then by the time Carlilse Edward & Emmett had deboarded (is that a word?? ) the plane I'm guessing there was at least 30 - 45 minutes of time between when Bella went missing until Edward et al would have gone for her.

Why?

Why didn't Alice and Jasper go catch up to Bella at her home? If one had to stay to meet the others then ok why didn't the other one go?

It just doesn't make any sense to me (well other than the fact it makes a great story). It seemed so out of sorts.


Well, it would have been a suicide mission for just one of them, because Alice didn't see if anyone was with James. Edward and Carlisile were going to be there shortly, and apparently so were some of the others, because in the book Jasper and Emmett take care of James. Also, James had been quite good in his partial evasions of Alice's site. I get the feeling Alice thought that they could make it in time, and it was better to wait for the calvery.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 12:04 am 
InLustWithEC wrote:
I couldn't see this being discussed anywhere else but if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.

I think I understand why Bella was able to get away from Jasper and Alice at the airport and even why Alice did not forsee Bella's plan.

However, after Bella didn't appear from the bathroom after a couple of minutes Jasper and alice would have known what had happened. By then, there would still have been 15 minutes or so before the plane landed, and then by the time Carlisle Edward & Emmett had deboarded (is that a word?? ) the plane I'm guessing there was at least 30 - 45 minutes of time between when Bella went missing until Edward et al would have gone for her.

Why?

Why didn't Alice and Jasper go catch up to Bella at her home? If one had to stay to meet the others then ok why didn't the other one go?

It just doesn't make any sense to me (well other than the fact it makes a great story). It seemed so out of sorts.


The whole ballet studio scene doesn't pass the smell test. At first glance, I would say that, the minute Alice and Jasper realized Bella had ditched them, they did take off after her in the Mercedes. Then Edward, Carlisle and Emmett (who were due to arrive minutes later) would have stolen a car and rushed to catch up. Remember the conversations about the stolen car in the hospital?

BUUUTTT-Alice and Jasper didn't get there first. Edward did. He pulled James off Bella (although I take a lot of what Edward tells Bella with a grain of salt, I actually believe him here). And, back to the hospital scene, Bella says that she didn't see Emmett and Jasper at the ballet studio at all. And, although Edward explains that away, I'd be willing to bet they weren't there.

The whole thing smells to high heaven.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:06 am 
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to tell you the truth I am not sure on this one. But it seems to me that since alice and Jasper were so unsure of exactly what the situation with james was that they should talk to carlisle first. The whole familiy seems to not make a move without carlisles input if getting his input is at all posible. remember in NM when Alice sees Edward going to the Volturi and she makes a bunch of phone calls first which is a prime example of her not acting untill she talks to the family first and it's not until she decerns that Carlisle is unreachable for an undetermined time period that she goes to Itally without talking to him first.

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