I didn't see anyone discussing this anywhere else, so here goes...

I was revamping with TW last night and read the part where Bella visits the Cullens at home for the first time. Edward is telling her Carlisle's story and says, "He must have been ancient, and weak with hunger. Carlisle heard him call out in Latin to the others when he caught the scent of the mob. He ran through the streets, and Carlisle -- he was twenty-three and very fast -- was in the lead of the pursuit. The creature could have easily outrun them, but Carlisle thinks he was too hungry, so he turned and attacked...He killed two men, and made off with a third, leaving Carlisle bleeding in the street." [emphasis mine]

I think it was one of the Volturi who changed Carlisle. There is no other reason for someone to be speaking Latin in England in the mid-1600s. Catholic priests would have been the only ones to speak Latin, but they wouldn't do it as daily speech. If he was so ancient and indigenous, he should have been speaking Celtic or Gaelic or something.

Carlisle wouldn't remember necessarily what his sire looked like because it happened at night in an era before good public lighting. Also, it would have been a human memory that would fade over the ~340 years of his vampiric existence.

Sooo... this could also explain why the Volturi are so interested in Carlisle and his "family."

Sorry if this seems a bit stilted -- trying to get this done with kids... Thoughts, ladies?

I don't know if she ahs named the vampire any were else byt in Carlisle Character Bios on the lex it says this

http://www.twilightlexiconblog.com/?p=24

Were there even Catholic Priests in England at the time? I thought Henry VIII pretty much kicked the Catholics out.

Maybe the vamps had been there since the Roman Legions invaded England?

Still some Catholics there in the 16th and 17th centuries. Don't forget Queen Mary or the Stuart kings. Although wasn't Charles II beheaded around that time? My British history is a bit fuzzy around the edges.

I suppose there could've been some vamps that came in with the legions, but I have a hard time thinking they could keep that on the QT during battles... I guess I'm just suspicious because she mentioned Latin as the language and we know that the Volturi were around then. Why bring up the language at all, especially one that requires explanation, if it isn't related to the story in some way?

Well, I was thinking maybe that the vamps were Romans that had been changed while in England. But, you make a good point. Why mention the language?

What can I say Frankie, you've made me into a very suspicious person... * cue sneaky, mysterious music *

I don't really have anything to add. Just that I really like this theory.

Thanks, Selene.

Could it have been "Father Marcus"?

Always happy to improve one's mental outlook.

Revamping that part of Twilight it sounds as though Carlisle encountered the Volturi fairly early on. If he was changed about 1660, and was painted by Solimena, he probably was with them in the early 1700's. Is that enough time for a "wraith" from the London sewers to make his way to Italy and become one of the Volturi?

Many good theories floating around. As far as one of the Volturi being the one that changed Carlisle, don't know how it could be. Alice is briefing Bella about the Volturi, during the plane ride. She says, Over the millennia, they have assumed the postion of enforcing our rules--which actually translates to punishing transgressors. If they have been doing this for the millennia, which is thousands of years, that means they were in this postion of Royalty long before Carlisle was changed. Doesn't make sense that one of them would be down in the sewers chasing humans during the 1600s.

That's kinda what I was thinking. Maybe the guy had been some kind of scholar at one point, or maybe the London vampires communicated in Latin (they do have endless time on their hands to learn languages). I never thought mentioning the language was significant.

Here is a very basic overview.

Catholicism was alive and kicking as a political force well after Henry VIII. The balance of power between Protestants and Catholics constantly shifted throughout the next century. Henry's daughter Mary was known as "Bloody Mary" because she attempted to reinstall Catholicism to its former precedence, trying to undo what her father did; she essentially instituted a purge; her sister, Elizabeth I, followed after and worked to undo Mary's "reforms." Elizabeth's successor, James I & VI (the first James of England but sixth James of Scotland, and incidentally, the fellow of the King James Bible) was Catholic, as were his son Charles I and grandson Charles II. However, between the two Charles monarchies was a period of Protestant Puritanism under Oliver Cromwell; after Charles II, well, you get the idea. There was a lot of back and forth.

As to why Carlisle's attacker spoke Latin...he may have been a former Volturi guard; he may have been a priest; he could have been one of the Romans who colonized Britain...it's an interesting question.

Yeah I think I'm gonna go with the camp that says this is probably just some random vampire left over from when the Romans occupied Britain. I don't think Carlisle making that comment about the vampire speaking Latin is any different than Bella making the comment about Laurent speaking with a slight French accent. Also, Latin was still the language spoken by a lot of educated people; if you couldn't speak with your Spanish or French neighbor, you spoke Latin since most people were Catholic (with the exception of England) at that time and that was the language of the pope. Not that I am a history scholar or anything...

Crap. I typed all this out once, then hit the send button, and the board hiccupped and lost it. So, here I go again. This time I'm going to copy it before I send it.

This might actually go under the "Science of Vampirsm" we keep talking about starting, but Stephenie keeps hinting that vampires do age, albeit very slowly (all has to do with increasing entropy, that Second Law of Thermodynamics). Remember, on page 146 of New Moon, when Bella tells Jake that they have to count the difference in their ages "in dog years"? Too funny, considering what happens. Anyway, I think it's a similar situation with vampires. It seems to be about 1 year for about every 50 human years. (page 517 of New Moon: "They count years the way you count days". At the rate of one vampire year for every 50 human years, one human year is about a week for a vampire.) So, someone like Aro, who may haved turned when he was 20 3000 years ago, would now be comparable to an 80 year-old-human. Sound about right? And Carlisle, who was 23 when he was changed 350 years ago would now be comparable to a 30 year old human, which is why he can get away with being a physician. Edward would have aged about two years, which would put right at the same age as Bella. How convenient.

So, where I'm going with this is that, an old vampire is old, not because he was changed when he was old, but because he's been around a very long time, and would therefore, be expected to speak an ancient language, such as Latin. That still wouldn't explain why he didn't speak an indigenous language, but maybe it's because all very old vampires were created very close to the point of origin, the Vampire "Garden of Eden" and dispersed from there.

One more thing this leads to: Do vampires really live forever? Maybe they don't die by natural means, but maybe they become weak, relative to younger vampires, and are destroyed. If vampires do not live forever, how is that going to play out for Bella and Edward being together "for eternity", especially when Edward didn't choose to become a vampire, but Bella did? Remember at the end of Eclipse when Bella states the ring will be on her finger presumably for all eternity?