Thanks Glittergirl! for the input. I took some time out today and curled up and went over a few chapters again including Ethics and started see something like that. It is destined that she has to make the decision. She even has to make the responsible decision in the Meadow with Edward. The two decisions clearly connected for me; a responsible decision made by her concious mind with finality and for Edwards sake *sigh*.

It still is a bitter pill for me that she could be attracted to Jacob but it's her My Jacob in actuallity. So sorry Jacob lovers, please forgive (Dont listen to this next part. Just skip it.) The preception that such a bright, sensitive and self-sacraficing young lady could choose someone so rude and quite unscupulous behavior ( but thats the "pup" Jacob, I love that confrontation by Edward at the Car).

I know some could argue that Edward has been just as deceptive as well. I dont know if I could really see it that way. When Jacob tells bella in Ethics that Edward is playing the game better then him. As I see it, she realizes then, how Jacob sees things in such a devious way and defends Edward for his genuine behavior (in giving her a choice) and I do do see Edward that way. Even with Edwards sincerity in his letter of "thank you" to Jacob, Edwards way of conveying his appreciation and gratitude. I think others may see it as cruel.

But back on task here. Thanks for the input, Bella is destined in finality to actually make a choice and create that finality. Thanks

Have you revamped New Moon? So many of us read NM quickly searching for Edward and mourning with Bella that we really miss what a thoughtful and caring person Jacob is. Jacob has less polish than Edward. He hasn't had the years of experience to know the subtle approach is often the better approach. However, Jacob knows he's the underdog and is fighting with everything he has to get Bella to realize the truth. He's not necessarily less scrupulous, but he's less polished and fighting from a more difficult position. Edward is more mature, but then again, considering difference in years of experience, you would certainly hope so!


This next sentiment may get this newbie tarred and feathered, but in many ways I think Jacob is *better* for Bella than Edward. Don't get me wrong, the romantic in me is !00% GO TEAM Edward. However, the "mom" in me doesn't think to highly of the B&E relationship for a good 2 1/2 books. Jacob respects Bella and thinks of her as an equal --- even without superhuman powers. Edward, on the other hand, repeatedly underestimates Bella's judgment and feelings. He loves her beyond description but he doesn't respect her as an equal.

i understand....because after all Bella and Jacob are the same age (relatively) and Edward, because of his age, has seen and heard it all before. I think he underestimates Bella because that is what he has seen of girls her age......but what attracts him to her is that she always surprises him. With enough time i feel he will see her as an equal.

I'm a newbie too, so no tarring or feathering from me! I have to respectfully disagree with you about Jacob though. You say that he respects Bella... I have seen over and over and over, instances where he absolutely DISrespects her. I realize he's just a teenager, but he acts childish in so many ways. Because of his behavior and because Bella is wise beyond her years, I don't see the two of them as ever being equal. I don't know what it is, but I just don't like Jacob. I am on my second reading through the series and trying REALLY hard to read with an open mind, but I think I find myself liking him even less! Crazy I know...

My friend was reading the books, and she was going to read EC while on vacation last week. When she came back, she said she just couldn't get into. She loved the first two, but just couldn't get into the third. She said it was because she was tired of Bella. I reassured her that Bella would make a decision, that the theme of the novel was her internal conflict. She seemed better and was going to retackle it.

my first read through the series, i was not a huge jacob fan.......now that i've read the series 3 times i've been able to see where jacob is coming from.

Ha ha ha... funny you should say that... I may have opened my mouth too soon. I am a little further into NM than I was when I made the above comment and now that I'm into it a bit more, I think I am also starting to see where he's coming from a bit more too. I'm still "Team Edward" all the way, but I am seeing Jacob's point of view a little better. Like a lot of others, I'm reading NM more slowly this time and really trying to understand Jacob better. When I read it the first time, I was simply in too much of a hurry to figure out when Edward would come back!

You're in good company- Edward himself felt that Jacob would be the better choice for Bella in many ways. The most altruistic part of Edward hoped that she would choose Jacob, pretty much right up to the end of Eclipse. That could be confusing to teenagers, simply because they are so egocentric at that age. They don't really understand the idea of sacrificing one's own happiness, for the sake of another, and possibly losing someone they loved.

I wasn't so much confused as flabbergasted by the turnaround in Bellas head. In New Moon when they're in the car and she hears Edwards voice tell her to "Be Happy" I started screeching in my head "WHAT??? NO!!!!!" I was so floored by the thought of her possibly settling for second best.
But then he came back and everything was whole again and right with the world. Yay! The End.

I can understand how people would be confused as to where exactly she fell in love romantically with Jacob in Eclipse. I understand she loves him like a best friend, a brother, I don't get where her romantic feelings for him came to be. Everytime he bashed Edward or the rest of the Cullens, I couldn't understand how she could sit there and take it, much less keep coming back for more. She's obviously much more forgiving than I am, cause I'd have gotten crazy.


You know what? Now I AM confused!!!!
I'm gonna have to read them all over again now to see if I can gain a better understanding of the whole situation.

I am glad this is being discussed. I felt like everyone was a little out of character in eclipse.. The whole Bella loving Jacob more than a friend threw me. She was always thinking of him as a friend and a brother and when he changed into a wolf he got really rude. I just couldn't believe that she all of the sudden realized she loved him when the entire time she wanted "the old jacob" back, plus he had some pretty pushy tactics in trying to win her over. As another poster mentioned, he was always saying bad things about the cullens and then kissed Bella once without asking, and the other time was going to do it whether or not she asked him to. I was absolutely revolted when she pictured her life with jacob and kids, I was like where is the real Bella??? And poor edward. I wasn't sure if I wanted him to dump Bella or actually fight for her instead of being so nice about it all. I was confused and worried their relationship was ending or something.

I know from reading the rest of the posts that you've re-vamped NM and are beginning to understand Jacob better. You get that when I discuss respect in regard to Edward, Jacob and Bella, it has nothing to do with manners, right? Manners are one way of showing respect but it is also possible to be polite to someone and not respect them at the same time.

Jacob shows his respect for Bella by not underestimating her. He can be brutally honest at times, but he knows she is strong enough to take it. Edward, on the other hand, spends 2 1/2 books making unilateral decisions for Bella because he thinks he always knows best. For the majority of the series, he underestimates both her judgement and depth of her feelings. Now I realize this is a result of his own self-esteem issues, his deep seeded fear of losing her and decades of hearing the thoughts of other humans. However, he loves her because she is different than other humans, so why does continue to project others' inadequacies upon her? So many readers think the Tree vs Forest line to be so romantic. Good thing, I'm not Bella because I find it highly insulting.



You were forgetting that she believed Edward when he said he no longer loved her and was leaving her forever. From her perspective he might as well have been dead -- the chances of him returning were nonexistent. Bella had already promised not to commit suicide and January starts with her determined to no longer live like a zombie. If we know anything about Bella, we know that she is determine. So if you are determine to truly find a reason to live and there's a boy/man that not only adores you but *understands* you, one that helped you find the way to climb out of a deep pit of despair and depression, one that you can be completely and utterly yourself without any fears of not measuring up next to him, would be a stretch to see yourself potentially falling in love? No, it wouldn't have been the extraordinary love she had for Edward, but then again everything about Edward is extraordinary. However, it would have been a good, comfortable love.



Her romantic feelings developed in NM and if she had been able to fully let go of Edward and truly *see* Jacob she would have realized she loved him then. However her love for Jacob, though very real and deep, just pales in comparison for her extraordinary love for Edward. Not only is it easier, safer to misidentify the love especially for someone as loyal as Bella, we have to remember that Bella is very inexperienced with romance. Most likely she truly did not identify her love for Jacob for exactly what it was until there was a very real threat that she would lose him forever -- and that it would be her fault.

Oh and a very minor issue, she doesn't just sit there and allow Jake to bash the Cullens anymore than she allows Edward to bash the werewolves. Switerland, remember?

BTW we've rehashed a lot of this on the pro-Jacob thread. I can't take credit for being the originator of all these point.

I agree with this completely. When I first read Eclipse, I REALLY didn't like Bella at the end. I just couldn't understand her kissing Jacob, when she knew perfectly well that Edward was the one she couldn't live without.

But as I have revamped and as I have read some interviews with SM, I have come to understand that there are all kinds of love in these books. There is the all encompassing, overwhelming, staggering Edward/Bella and Sam/Emliy love, but then there is also the much slower developing Sam/Leah, Bella/Jacob kind of love. The love that develops through hanging around in a garage and getting to know someone over warm sodas. Since Bella had never experienced the slower developing kind of love, and her only reference point was her complete and total obsession with Edward, it's not as surprising that she didn't realize what it was she was feeling until it was about to be lost.

As far as the confusion in Eclipse goes, besides initially being ticked at Bella, it didn't really confuse me. But my Mom is reading it for the first time right now, and she has hit a brick wall at the bonfire scene. She got really confused by Taha Aki's story and is having a really hard time getting beyond that part. I've told her not to worry too much about all the names and all, just remember the Third Wife part and she'll be good.

I thought the scene with Jacob didn't come soon enough! It was building all through NM and Eclipse. I kept saying through NM,"Bella, you're in love with Jacob, you idiot!" A couple of times, she almost came to it, with the near kisses in the truck and in the kitchen. They were interrupted both times, but I think the kiss would have forced her to realize her love for him. It was so obvious to me. And she kept thinking things that made me think that deep down she knew it too. But she just couldn't admit any feelings for anyone but Edward. So when she finally did kiss Jake in Eclipse and realized how she felt, I was excited. I knew she would still pick Edward, but I really wanted her to realize that Jacob was right and she had been in denial all that time. She couldn't really make a decision based on her true feelings until she admitted what they were. And she did realize and she did make the decision I knew she would. I love Jacob, but alas, this is Edward and Bella's story, so she really had only one choice.

I was nodding and agreeing emphatically while reading this!! I feel exactly the same way!