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Amie
Volturi Mom
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 1553
Location: Idaho
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 Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject: Re: Wanderer |
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| CullenFan wrote: |
| This will be the place where we will discuss Wanderer- I didnt think I would be able to enjoy this character as much as I have... I actually idetnified more with her than I did with Melanie... Did anyone else feel the same? |
I really liked wanderer and I also thought I would not care for her but I really ended up loving her more then I thought and I enjoyed it she is just a wonderful person and my heart broke for her in certain place.
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Shimmerskin
Volturi Mom
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2748
Location: Revolving around a MIDNIGHT SUN...
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: Re: Wanderer |
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| CullenFan wrote: |
| This will be the place where we will discuss Wanderer- I didnt think I would be able to enjoy this character as much as I have... I actually idetnified more with her than I did with Melanie... Did anyone else feel the same? |
I felt that way. I find things to admire in Melanie, and I pity her situation very, very much, but I don't feel close to her. I was more drawn to Wanderer, and from quite early on. I think when I really, really started to care about her was when she starts to grasp the fundamental truth of what the souls are doing. It's when she's at her session with Kathy, her Comforter, and she becomes physically ill when Melanie's words and emotions break through, except Wanderer experiences them as her own for the first time. She/They are protesting the idea of Jared being captured and implanted with a soul.
"That's killing him! That's making him cease to be! I don't want someone else. I want JARED, not a stranger in his body! The body means nothing without him."
The first real glimmer of what this means is powerful enough to make Wanderer violently sick. She's not only gaining some understanding of what the erasure and replacement means to humans, and feeling horror as a result, she's going through something like it, herself, because she's not sure where her thoughts and feelings begin and Melanie's end. She's not certain who's who right then, she's lost herself for a moment and it's terrifying.
While she's weak and ill, the Seeker finds her, hounds her, taunts her...and Wanderer, despite the personal horror and terror (and vomit)she's dealing with, manages to defy the Seeker and partner with Melanie to keep Jamie safe. It's a breakthrough moment.
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GlitterGirl
Onyx Vampire
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Shimmerskin wrote: |
| See, that's what I'm wondering--how much of her perception is due to her native (and unusual in a soul) empathy for other species, how much is due to her multitude of experiences, and how much is because she has the benefit of sharing human emotions through her connection with Melanie? I'm sure it's a combination of all three, but I'm not sure which is the most influential. Which do you think is the most indispensable component in developing empathy: natural sensitivity, experience, or connection to others? Or do they have to be present equally for true empathy to develop? |
Good question! I might have to "wander" over to the General Discussion thread. At this point, I would say empathy is wanderer/wanda's defining trait, but I could easily make this a good chicken/egg debate.
As far as Pet being an appropriate body for Wanda, I agree that Wanda is stronger than the physical abilities of Pet. We've been inside her head so we *know* how strong she is. However, in someways her strength makes her a very *fragile* creature. Her strength of character requires her to do *anything* to assist her fellow creature, regardless of the preservation of "self". Not only does Pet's physical weakness reflect this fragility, it is a visual prompt for others to better care for Wanda.
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Renaissance
Onyx Vampire
Joined: 18 Mar 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| GlitterGirl wrote: |
| Shimmerskin wrote: |
| See, that's what I'm wondering--how much of her perception is due to her native (and unusual in a soul) empathy for other species, how much is due to her multitude of experiences, and how much is because she has the benefit of sharing human emotions through her connection with Melanie? I'm sure it's a combination of all three, but I'm not sure which is the most influential. Which do you think is the most indispensable component in developing empathy: natural sensitivity, experience, or connection to others? Or do they have to be present equally for true empathy to develop? |
Good question! I might have to "wander" over to the General Discussion thread. At this point, I would say empathy is wanderer/wanda's defining trait, but I could easily make this a good chicken/egg debate.
As far as Pet being an appropriate body for Wanda, I agree that Wanda is stronger than the physical abilities of Pet. We've been inside her head so we *know* how strong she is. However, in someways her strength makes her a very *fragile* creature. Her strength of character requires her to do *anything* to assist her fellow creature, regardless of the preservation of "self". Not only does Pet's physical weakness reflect this fragility, it is a visual prompt for others to better care for Wanda. |
PERFECT point! When she was in Melanie's body, she was deprived, abused, ignored, feared, and hated. Perhaps putting her in a body that provokes a different reaction from people was their way of trying to make a bit of that up to her. I like the idea of her in Pet's (now her) body. She may be a little cutesy now but as she matures, I think her inner strength will shine through. Plus with her purity she deserves an angelic face. 
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lauralee
Volturi Mom
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1547
Location: watching the unicorn stop and nibble at the rosebushes with Edward
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| Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Renaissance,
Interesting. We must remember that Jamie, Jared and Mel picked out the body. I am sure they picked something that matched their perception. If Wanda is pure and angelic visually, I would think that matches their perception of her.
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Lauralee
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flaherty1013
Topaz Vampire
Joined: 30 Jan 2008
Posts: 2318
Location: Guilty reading Midnight Sun...and loving it!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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LOVED Wanderer! She sort of reminded me of Carlisle. I was surprised by what a great character she was, especially since I was expecting to *like* Melanie more.
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As you wish
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Amie
Volturi Mom
Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 1553
Location: Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| flaherty1013 wrote: |
| LOVED Wanderer! She sort of reminded me of Carlisle. I was surprised by what a great character she was, especially since I was expecting to *like* Melanie more. |
I agree I love wanda also but I also thought that I would like Mel better but both of there charcters suprised me.
I really love Wanda
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cuppa joe
Newborn
Joined: 15 Feb 2008
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| tnewman wrote: |
| I was very disturbed by the new body they chose for Wanda at the end. I know Jamie and Jared thought it was all pretty and cute and fit Wanda's gentle nature, but Wanda really loved Mel's body. She loved being strong and fast and independent. She may be gentle, but she certainly isn't a weak woman. It just seems so like a man to choose a tiny, silvery body because they think it goes with a soul's "true" appearance - as if that has anything to do with personality. |
This reaction of mine to the ending also surprised me the most and had me thinking: I was weirdly upset that Wanda was placed in a different body in the end. I wanted her to remain in Mel‘s strong body, but Mel to fade away! (That‘s where I thought the story was going – but SM wants to make all her characters happy. That‘s why I‘m hopeful for Bella, Edward, AND Jacob in BD.) But to place her in this more fragile, fluffy, angelic human body… hmph, I felt disoriented and out of sorts because suddenly, Wanda no longer fit the image in my head. Also--and this is really more shallow a reason--Pet in my mind is child-like, and this doesn't fit the hot sex that I imagine Wanda and Ian to be having, heheee!
But then my reaction brought home an important point of the story: that it really DOESN‘T matter what your outside packaging is. Me struggling with that highlighted our human tendency to merge body with soul. (I do love Ian for being able to overcome that and truly love Wanderer-the-Soul.)
I see the point of others' comments on this topic, that perhaps Pet's "weakness" and softness allows the humans to be more protective of, and less aggressive towards her. She's also young; over time, her body will become hardier and stronger from life underground.
_________________
If all else perished, and he remained,
I should still continue to be;
and if all else remained, and he were annihilated,
the universe would turn to a mighty stranger.
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Shimmerskin
Volturi Mom
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2748
Location: Revolving around a MIDNIGHT SUN...
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| Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| cuppa joe wrote: |
| I felt disoriented and out of sorts because suddenly, Wanda no longer fit the image in my head |
I think that's the point, or part of it. You feel just as disoriented and out of sorts as Wanda does when she wakes up to discover herself in Pet's body.
It's a great piece of writing that lets you experience what the character experiences at the exact same time; you're feeling the same feelings she does but for your own reasons, and then you find out her reasons afterward. It's a double impact. That's dynamite.
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lauralee
Volturi Mom
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 1547
Location: watching the unicorn stop and nibble at the rosebushes with Edward
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Shimmerskin wrote: |
| cuppa joe wrote: |
| I felt disoriented and out of sorts because suddenly, Wanda no longer fit the image in my head |
I think that's the point, or part of it. You feel just as disoriented and out of sorts as Wanda does when she wakes up to discover herself in Pet's body.
It's a great piece of writing that lets you experience what the character experiences at the exact same time; you're feeling the same feelings she does but for your own reasons, and then you find out her reasons afterward. It's a double impact. That's dynamite. |
I agree. When explaining the book, I told someone that you have to achieve awareness and get used to your environment as Wanderer does. You are taking the trip with her. So it makes sense that Pet would have that same level of adjustment for the character and reader. Despite the body Jamie picked, there would have been an adjustment, or SM wouldn't have stayed true to her storyline.
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Lauralee
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anlily
Newborn
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 85
Location: In a library, surrounded by Twilight fans.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:53 am Post subject: |
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It's also interesting to see how Wanda becomes aware of the various characters in the cave as she describes them. As Wanda gets to know them, they become so much more cclorfull than when first met.
_________________
Student: Ms. K, I just finished Eclipse. Do you have the next one?
Me: Not yet, it's not coming out until August 2.
S: But..but...but...What am I supposed to read until then?
Me: You'll be alright, you just have to wait until August 2, like the rest of us. Let's go find you another book.
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Shimmerskin
Volturi Mom
Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2748
Location: Revolving around a MIDNIGHT SUN...
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 9:00 am Post subject: |
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| anlily wrote: |
| It's also interesting to see how Wanda becomes aware of the various characters in the cave as she describes them. As Wanda gets to know them, they become so much more cclorfull than when first met. |
I like that you said this. You're right. And it's how people unfold for us, too, after we meet them. When Wanda meets other characters they don't spring fully-formed onto the page any more than they would for us if we were meeting them at our first PTA meeting (or wherever). We get glimpses and fragments which we piece together into more complete personalities just as Wanda must.
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CullenizedByEdward
Newborn
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 90
Location: Sparkling in the sun
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimmerskin wrote: |
| cuppa joe wrote: |
| I felt disoriented and out of sorts because suddenly, Wanda no longer fit the image in my head |
I think that's the point, or part of it. You feel just as disoriented and out of sorts as Wanda does when she wakes up to discover herself in Pet's body.
It's a great piece of writing that lets you experience what the character experiences at the exact same time; you're feeling the same feelings she does but for your own reasons, and then you find out her reasons afterward. It's a double impact. That's dynamite. |
Dynamite...Exactly! Did anyone do the "What would I do if I found myself in a totally different body? Just wondering. I mean, at least Wanda is a little used to doing that. But for us, it was something of a shocker, eh?
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BeautifulDisaster
Topaz Vampire
Joined: 18 Feb 2008
Posts: 1620
Location: lighting a candle for Stephenie
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| Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| GlitterGirl wrote: |
| Shimmerskin wrote: |
| See, that's what I'm wondering--how much of her perception is due to her native (and unusual in a soul) empathy for other species, how much is due to her multitude of experiences, and how much is because she has the benefit of sharing human emotions through her connection with Melanie? I'm sure it's a combination of all three, but I'm not sure which is the most influential. Which do you think is the most indispensable component in developing empathy: natural sensitivity, experience, or connection to others? Or do they have to be present equally for true empathy to develop? |
Good question! I might have to "wander" over to the General Discussion thread. At this point, I would say empathy is wanderer/wanda's defining trait, but I could easily make this a good chicken/egg debate.
As far as Pet being an appropriate body for Wanda, I agree that Wanda is stronger than the physical abilities of Pet. We've been inside her head so we *know* how strong she is. However, in someways her strength makes her a very *fragile* creature. Her strength of character requires her to do *anything* to assist her fellow creature, regardless of the preservation of "self". Not only does Pet's physical weakness reflect this fragility, it is a visual prompt for others to better care for Wanda. |
Dang, that's some genius analysis! How much psych training have you had?
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anlily
Newborn
Joined: 05 May 2008
Posts: 85
Location: In a library, surrounded by Twilight fans.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: |
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Love what you said Glitter, I would also have to say that her diminutive body also prevents her from being as self-sacrificing. She can no longer work 2x as hard as everybody else just to fit in. People need to take care of her, her body can't be as self-sacrificing as her true nature is, or that Mel's body would allow.
_________________
Student: Ms. K, I just finished Eclipse. Do you have the next one?
Me: Not yet, it's not coming out until August 2.
S: But..but...but...What am I supposed to read until then?
Me: You'll be alright, you just have to wait until August 2, like the rest of us. Let's go find you another book.
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