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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:59 pm 
Oops-this is why you should alway go back and read what Stephenie says:

From the Lexicon

So Jane's power is related to being burned, but not Alec's.

Moderator's note: Edited due to content. Please summarize and link from the lexicon. No direct quoting even with a link, please. Thanx!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:57 pm 
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Quote:
And by the way, I don't know if there's actual confusion, or a confusion of terminology, but the fight with the newborns and the confrontation with the Volturi didn't take place in Edward and Bella's "meadow" but in the "open field" where the Cullin's played baseball.


Confusion of terminology, total blunder on my part.

Alec:
Quote:
only that it is more potent in battle than hers

Potent:
1. powerful; mighty:
2. cogent; persuasive:
3. producing powerful physical or chemical effects:
4. having or exercising great power or influence

I've gone back to read and if Jane developed her gift from pain and suffering, could Alec's gift have been to shut down, turn things off, or otherwise, stop time. That would be a pretty big gift and one that would allow the Volturi to escape harm. Rambling again

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 Post subject: Alec's Power
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:34 am 
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Channeling Black:
Quote:
Quote:
only that it is more potent in battle than hers

Potent:
1. powerful; mighty:
2. cogent; persuasive:
3. producing powerful physical or chemical effects:
4. having or exercising great power or influence

I've gone back to read and if Jane developed her gift from pain and suffering, could Alec's gift have been to shut down, turn things off, or otherwise, stop time. That would be a pretty big gift and one that would allow the Volturi to escape harm[/color]


After reading your description of Potent and the fact that it relates back to when he and Jane were burned at the stake....I wonder if he is a "Fire Starter?".......that would be a REALLY potent weapon in battle ...but would vampires still need to torn apart too?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:07 pm 
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I have been looking into the Divine Comedy concerning another thread and I had a passing thought that Alec might be able to reveal the circle of hell that is waiting for a vampire upon his/her death. I imagine he and Jane were pretty resentful while being burned alive :shock: and if Jane's power to torture manifested while being burned--I wonder what Alec was thinking that created his power. Something along the lines of "how dare you judge me. wait until you see what is in store for you"--kind of thing. I have no evidence from the text to back that up and it isn't really a satisfying answer, but I'm sure it would be a horrific revelation to any vampire. If I thought my choice was "side with Alec/Volturi and do what they say or be destroyed and spend an eternity in a river of boiling blood in Hell" I'd go with Alec.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:12 pm 
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auntie venom wrote:
I have been looking into the Divine Comedy concerning another thread and I had a passing thought that Alec might be able to reveal the circle of hell that is waiting for a vampire upon his/her death. I imagine he and Jane were pretty resentful while being burned alive :shock: and if Jane's power to torture manifested while being burned--I wonder what Alec was thinking that created his power. Something along the lines of "how dare you judge me. wait until you see what is in store for you"--kind of thing. I have no evidence from the text to back that up and it isn't really a satisfying answer, but I'm sure it would be a horrific revelation to any vampire. If I thought my choice was "side with Alec/Volturi and do what they say or be destroyed and spend an eternity in a river of boiling blood in Hell" I'd go with Alec.


Check out the wolf threads. We have been discussing the "circle" in one of those threads. Someone thinks it may be the meadow, also were Taha Aki would leave his body.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:34 pm 
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Pixie wrote:
auntie venom wrote:
I have been looking into the Divine Comedy concerning another thread and I had a passing thought that Alec might be able to reveal the circle of hell that is waiting for a vampire upon his/her death. I imagine he and Jane were pretty resentful while being burned alive :shock: and if Jane's power to torture manifested while being burned--I wonder what Alec was thinking that created his power. Something along the lines of "how dare you judge me. wait until you see what is in store for you"--kind of thing. I have no evidence from the text to back that up and it isn't really a satisfying answer, but I'm sure it would be a horrific revelation to any vampire. If I thought my choice was "side with Alec/Volturi and do what they say or be destroyed and spend an eternity in a river of boiling blood in Hell" I'd go with Alec.


Check out the wolf threads. We have been discussing the "circle" in one of those threads. Someone thinks it may be the meadow, also were Taha Aki would leave his body.


I definately think the meadow is some kind of ritual circle or "axis mundi". There is talk all around the board about the possibilites of that meadow!! I think the Volturi are aware of it and use it as well. Alice was only aware that the Volturi were coming about 30 min before the fight. And she was looking out for them to make a decision to come. International flights from Italy would take hours hours hours to Seattle. And they would stand out I would think. :D . All these vampires seem to get around pretty fast- Denali to Forks. Brazil to Italy. And why was Laurent going to the meadow specifically in NM? There is a lot of land out there to just happen across the same spot. Humph.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 12:37 pm 
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Pixie wrote:
Quote:
Alice was only aware that the Volturi were coming about 30 min before the fight. And she was looking out for them to make a decision to come. International flights from Italy would take hours to get to Seattle..

It just occurred to me what a great power for Alec would be. His power is supposed to be really helpful in times of battle. So what if he could freeze time?

I have often wondered how the guard/Volturi could clear Mexico/Texas and part of the south of all the newborns so easily. If Alec could freeze the action and the rest of the group just moves in and rips everyone up..how easy that would be!

It might also explain how they got to Forks so fast???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 1:52 am 
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auntie venom wrote:
Pixie wrote:
auntie venom wrote:
I have been looking into the Divine Comedy concerning another thread and I had a passing thought that Alec might be able to reveal the circle of hell that is waiting for a vampire upon his/her death. I imagine he and Jane were pretty resentful while being burned alive :shock: and if Jane's power to torture manifested while being burned--I wonder what Alec was thinking that created his power. Something along the lines of "how dare you judge me. wait until you see what is in store for you"--kind of thing. I have no evidence from the text to back that up and it isn't really a satisfying answer, but I'm sure it would be a horrific revelation to any vampire. If I thought my choice was "side with Alec/Volturi and do what they say or be destroyed and spend an eternity in a river of boiling blood in Hell" I'd go with Alec.


Check out the wolf threads. We have been discussing the "circle" in one of those threads. Someone thinks it may be the meadow, also were Taha Aki would leave his body.


I definately think the meadow is some kind of ritual circle or "axis mundi". There is talk all around the board about the possibilites of that meadow!! I think the Volturi are aware of it and use it as well. Alice was only aware that the Volturi were coming about 30 min before the fight. And she was looking out for them to make a decision to come. International flights from Italy would take hours hours hours to Seattle. And they would stand out I would think. :D . All these vampires seem to get around pretty fast- Denali to Forks. Brazil to Italy. And why was Laurent going to the meadow specifically in NM? There is a lot of land out there to just happen across the same spot. Humph.


This and Gail's speculation that Alec might be able to stop time is leaving my brain in a whirl! This is starting to sound like "Lost"! :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 10:45 pm 
vnfan wrote:
I've been thinking about the Volturi, especially with the emphasis that is placed on their appearance in New Moon, Ch. 21 Verdict when Bella meets Aro:

Quote:
He drifted forward, and the movement flowed with such surreal grace that I gawked, my mouth hanging open. Even Alice, whose every motion looked like dancing, could not compare.

I was only more astonished as he floated closer and I could see his face. It was not like the unnaturally attractive faces that surrounded him (for he did not approach us alone; the entire group converged around him, some following, and some walking ahead of him with the alert manner of bodyguards). I couldn't decide if his face was beautiful or not. I suppose the features were perfect. But he was as different from the vampires beside him as they were from me. His skin was translucently white, like onionskin, and it looked just as delicate—it stood in shocking contrast to the long black hair that framed his face. I felt a strange, horrifying urge to touch his cheek, to see if it was softer than Edward's or Alice's, or if it was
powdery, like chalk. His eyes were red, the same as the others around him, but the color was clouded, milky; I wondered if his vision was affected by the haze...

...I was horrified at the thought of allowing him to touch me, and yet also perversely intrigued by the chance to feel his strange skin.

Edward nodded in encouragement—whether because he was sure Aro would not hurt me, or because there was no choice, I couldn't tell.

I turned back to Aro and raised my hand slowly in front of me. It was trembling.

He glided closer, and I believe he meant his expression to be reassuring. But his papery features were too strange, too alien and frightening, to reassure. The look on his face was more confident than his words had been.

Aro reached out, as if to shake my hand, and pressed his insubstantial-looking skin against mine. It was hard, but felt brittle—shale rather than granite—and even colder than I expected.

His filmy eyes smiled down at mine, and it was impossible to look away. They were mesmerizing in an odd, unpleasant way.


Aro, Caius and Marcus seem to be some sort of uber-vampire. I find it intriguing that there were 6 original Volturi -- 3 male and 3 female. (Marcus' mate died in battle according to the Lex, and we know there are 2 other females) If vampires were created, not originating in some sort of curse or genetic abnormality, could these 6 be the original and all others their "offspring" (not by birth, since we know that can't happen, but by conversion)? Do they look different because they are different?

Stephenie did say we would learn why the Volturi's skin is the way it is in Book 4. Will there be some big reveal on vampire origins? If they were created, then when, at what point in the created order? Vampires are nearly angelic in appearance and gifting. Could they have been some sort of 'divine' creature that was exiled or fell?

In one very small part of Genesis (Gen 6:1-4), there is a mention of the Nephilim being on the earth and they are described as "men of renown" and are mentioned right after a phrase that says the "sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful..." The meaning of Nephilim is unclear, but one possible meaning is "those causing others to fall," and they are popularly thought to have been fallen angels. Anyway, if the Volturi were some sort of non-human beings who took human-like bodies to be here amongst the people, it could explain why their bodies are in some ways like those of the other vampires and yet still very different from the typical vampire. They could possibly be in a body that is starting to wear out, or was never all that strong to start with.

I clearly spend too much time thinking about this sort of thing. Is this totally nuts?

*crickets chirp*


There's those that think I'm totally nuts-in fact I'm so nuts I don't care what they think! So, here's something I wrote over here: http://twilightmomsforums.freeforums.or ... t5208.html

This might actually go under the "Science of Vampirsm" we keep talking about starting, but Stephenie keeps hinting that vampires do age, albeit very slowly (all has to do with increasing entropy, that Second Law of Thermodynamics). Remember, on page 146 of New Moon, when Bella tells Jake that they have to count the difference in their ages "in dog years"? Too funny, considering what happens. Anyway, I think it's a similar situation with vampires. It seems to be about 1 year for about every 50 human years. (page 517 of New Moon: "They count years the way you count days". At the rate of one vampire year for every 50 human years, one human year is about a week for a vampire.) So, someone like Aro, who may haved turned when he was 20 3000 years ago, would now be comparable to an 80 year-old-human. Sound about right? And Carlisle, who was 23 when he was changed 350 years ago would now be comparable to a 30 year old human, which is why he can get away with being a physician. Edward would have aged about two years, which would put right at the same age as Bella. How convenient.

So, where I'm going with this is that, an old vampire is old, not because he was changed when he was old, but because he's been around a very long time, and would therefore, be expected to speak an ancient language, such as Latin. That still wouldn't explain why he didn't speak an indigenous language, but maybe it's because all very old vampires were created very close to the point of origin, the Vampire "Garden of Eden" and dispersed from there.

One more thing this leads to: Do vampires really live forever? Maybe they don't die by natural means, but maybe they become weak, relative to younger vampires, and are destroyed.


Last edited by Frankie on Sat May 03, 2008 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:30 am 
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Interesting thoughts once again Frankie. I like the aging thing in comparison to "dog years". You could be on to something there. Would also explain the weathered skin of the Volturri.

Great thoughts!!! :)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 2:39 pm 
Thanks. I'll spare you the explanation of the time-space continuum
until I actually understand it myself.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 5:12 pm 
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dazzled4sure wrote:
Interesting thoughts once again Frankie. I like the aging thing in comparison to "dog years". You could be on to something there. Would also explain the weathered skin of the Volturri.

Great thoughts!!! :)


You said it. I really hope Frankie leaves her brain to science because she's an amazing thinker.

I love that "dog years" analogy. Every species ages at a different rate, has its own lifespan, from the single day of the Mayfly to the hundred years of the sea turtle to the thousand years of the giant redwood. It stands to reason there would be a vampire lifespan, one ranging across millenia so that a century for us is a mere couple of years to them. Such a species would surely seem immortal to us.

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 am 
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Frankie wrote:
One more thing this leads to: Do vampires really live forever? Maybe they don't die by natural means, but maybe they become weak, relative to younger vampires, and are destroyed.


This could also explain why James was able to kill the old vampire that changed Alice so easily (by himself as opposed to having Edward, Emmett, AND Jasper taking him down)

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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 4:50 am 
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I could see Jason Isaacs as one of the elder Voltui, he is a great bad guy.


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:01 am 
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vampgirl32 wrote:
I could see Jason Isaacs as one of the elder Voltui, he is a great bad guy.


GREAT choice. He was so coolly sinister in The Patriot...so coolly sinister in HP...he'd have the cool, sinister part of the Volturi down.

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