SHOREA...YES, everything is life is seen through a different pair of eyes, and we can never say what is right or wrong for others because we are not in their shoes. Rosaie sees what is right for her, as does Bella. But Rosalie needs to understand,that while her opinion is valuable, Bella still needs to make her own decision based on her wants and needs.

I adore Rosalie. I really do. I think she's a great character. But I think she's kind of hypocritical telling Bella that Bella does not know what would be best for her. Abraham Lincoln said it best: Every man has to skin his own skunk. And by extension, every woman has to decide what is best for her, in the circumstances she is in. Key word being circumstances. Rose doesn't really know Bella, after all. Bella has always felt different from other people, in one way or another.

I can see your POV Jayne1955. I can also see Rose's. If I put myself in her place and try to think threw her position and experiance and feelings I can understand her actions and I don't fault her for them. If anything I think more highly of her for them. She probably feels like stopping bella from becoming a vampire is her moral responsibiity, since she sees her vampirism as a curse ("if we had happy endings we'd all be under gravestones now"-Rosealie EC 154) I thought of it in terms that were more undertandable-since I have never been a vampire or known any vampires or watched any vampires go through trials and tribulations-so I pictured it in an easy to digest senerio. If I were a former drug addict who had really gone threw the ringer because of my of my addiction and could still feel the sting from some of the bad memories and still looked at a life that I would never have becuase of the bad times (eg If you are convicted of a drug related crime you can't ever become a doctor so mabey it was my lifes ambition to be a doctor). Then I saw some young girl like I had once been so full of possibilities flirting with the idea of using recreational drugs, would it not be my moral reponsibility to step up and try everything in my power to save her from that life.

Not that I agree that that the cullens lives are a just a series moments leading to painful degredation. I don't, but Rose does and her feelings are valid even if I don't feel the same way she does. and she is willing to stand up and say -hey you don't know waht you are doing, you haven't lived this way for decades, trust me, you don't want to do this. Plus Rose must know that bella doesn't have the life experiance needed to truely undertand what it means to give up her ability to have children and live a normal life. 17 year olds are impetuous, it just the way the 17 year old brain is in it's current state of development. So even when she does go to bella to tell her why she has been the way she has she sayes this "Please don't think that I am horrible interfering." Rosealie said, her voice gental almost pleading..."I'm sure I've hurt your feelings enough in the past and I don't want to do that again." then after she tells her story she says "Don't you see bella...You already have everything. Your whole life ahead of you."

So though I wanna see Bella changed really really really bad and I will be sad if she's not I can understand Rosealies POV and her actions.

I have an interesting question. Edward doesn't want Bella to be a vamp. He knows what Rosalie has to say (granted she was just jealous at first, but I mean later). Why doesn't he promote that conversation? Does he secretly want her to be a vampire?

Edward is too considerate to rose to suggest that she dredge up the painful past inorder to explain the whys. He thinks that he can just take care of Bella himself. He is a bit of a theatrical martar sometimes with his extreme selflessness. Edwards never really explains the other cullens stories, he lets them do it, he doen't even tell them to tell he he just just waits and lets them do it in their own time in their own way. Rose says "He doesn't like to tell other people's stroies-he feels like he is betrying confidences, becuase he hears so much more than just the parts they mean for him to hear. " so really the anwer is in the question lauralee. He's so stinkin thoughtful and respectful of everyone just another reason why I love him.

Oh CullenFan, I couldn't agree with you more. What did Esme say about Edward when Bella and she discussed how she came to be an immortal, "What a gentleman my son is," or something to that effect. Even Rosalie had to compliment him in much the same way when she told Bella her story in Eclipse. I guess that they not only broke the mold when Edward was created, but they hid the artifacts really well. I adore him as well.

LOL I love this.

Thanks, Jayne1955 - you brought up some really good points. Yes, if any of them were in danger it would be impossibly difficult for the others to be mortal in their efforts to help.




Lauralee, that's a great explanation - I see what you mean. As long as her greatest source of happiness is in admiration from others she won't be truly happy. It's odd that she hasn't become more secure in who she is as a person from living with Carlisle and Esme for so many years, but the fact that she is still irritated with Edward for not being stunned by her beauty is very telling. She still needs to make more progress in realizing her non-physical worth before she can be truly happy. I wonder if Rosalie will have a "save the day" moment in BD to help her with this much-needed epiphany....

Personally, I don't agree - I think Bella is more than mature enough to know her own mind at this point in her life. Granted a lot of 17 year olds (i.e. in real life) couldn't answer such an important question at 17 and would change their minds with life experience, but Bella is intended to be vampire-esque in the permanence of her feelings and life's desires. Plus, she has already raised a child - her mother. She has a unique understanding of what responsibility for another entails and - for some people - being a mother just isn't a high priority. As someone who has always known that motherhood isn't what I want, I can attest to the possibility of knowing this definitively at 17. For Bella, her true love is more important than giving birth or adopting and Rosalie needs to take a page out of Renee's book and realize that Bella's possible, future regrets (if she has any, which I highly doubt) will be uniquely her own and not like Rosalie's.




Me too - I love this line!!

Look at the reverse of this: there are many, many people who know definitively at 17 that they want to become parents someday. We don't go around telling them, "Now, don't be making decisions based on that! You could change your mind!!"

It's true, of course; they may change their minds just as 17 yr old naysayers-to-progeny may also change their minds. Even then, they don't know what they're in for. Parenthood is one of those experiences you can't possibly understand until you're doing it. The ironic thing is that in order to understand it, you have to go through it, and once you start going through it, you don't get to change your mind. Parenthood is one of the most permanent things we bring upon ourselves, we can never undo it. Once you've had a child, you will always have "had a child." Whether you raise it, lose it, drown it, or abandon it, you will ever after be someone who has "had a child."

There is a lot of criticism about Bella not fully weighing the permanence, the irrevocability, of becoming a vampire, yet it could be a simile for parenthood in that it's another of those experiences one cannot begin to comprehend without going through it. Vampirehood stands to bring her great pain, sorrow, conflict, and difficulty, and presumably joy...and the same is true of parenthood. Some of us would want to be vampires and some of us wouldn't; some of us want to be parents and some of us don't. Not one of us knows what either state of being (vampire or parent) is truly like until we go through it.

I think Bella will continue to examine and prepare herself for vampirehood as much as it's possible to do, because she believes she wants it. I think if she believed she wanted parenthood she would be examining that, too (and she still may) but as of the end of EC it's simply not something that calls to her.

Rosalie doesn't understand this because Rosalie interprets the world only in terms of what she wants or wanted from it; Rosalie lacks empathy. That's not her fault because she never had many opportunities to develop it, but I think she could if she made up her mind to. A good start would be to tell Bella, no, I don't agree with your decision but it's yours to make and so I'll support you; I won't even say 'I told you so' should you ever regret it, I'll just try to help you through any disappointments that come up.... I think that's the most helpful thing Rosalie can do for Bella, and possibly for herself, as well; it would be a step toward emotional maturity and even a glimpse at parenthood because oddly enough, it's also what parents have to say to children sometimes....

So well put, Shimmerskin! And I completely agree about Rosalie needing to develop empathy - maybe in time she can take Bella under her wing and that will help both of them. That's what I was trying to get at when I said Rosalie needs to let Bella have her own unique regrets, but you worded it all much better - thanks!

You worded your thoughts beautifully! I only took up where you left off, building on what you started because you inspired me.

Everyone's dreams and desires for their life are alway unique and individual. But I don't think that raising a parent is an experiance that can corespond with parenthood. AS shimmerskin said it is an experiance that can not be fully understood at 17 or even possibly any age by someone who hasn't experianced it. I have told this to many teenage girls that think that they know what they are getting into because they helped a friend with her child "all the time". I also think that many 17 year old have an idea of their lifes path, where their going and who they want to be. But indefinate decisions regarding the reproductive life of a 17 year old should not be in said childs hands. Hence no respectable doctor would perform a tubal ligation on a childless 17 year old (or any 17 year old, at 19 my doctor refused me norplant because it was too long term a descion for a teenager-a year and a half later I had a bouncing baby boy when I had previous not wanted children until I was at least 30).

But I still disagree, mostly on the basis of science. the teenage brain is not fully developed and it works differntly from an adults. The teenage brain works differently in the way it processes information and defines external and internal stimuli. The brain structures are also different in size and shape still forming and developing in to the completed model. This was the basis behind the Duke University study on the teenage brain that showed the malformation to the brain structure and function with bing drinking in people under age 25-these where atleast partially irriverseable. Also the prefrontal cortex in used differntly in teens making them much more emotionally driven. Hence the impulsive risk taking beahavior.

And socio-emotionally I agree with Rosealie that the time that we live in don't mature teens enough to be young parents. Rosealie sayes "It was a different time. I was the same age as you but I was ready for it all." So even Rose knew that Bella was not ready for adult life-so If your not ready to act like an adult it is risky to make adult descions.

I still am glad that she gave her speach to bella, cause someone needed to atleast talk with her about. Dialoge a bit and put all of the facts on the table. Rosealie isn't the mind reader so she had to be sure bella understood what she was giving up and why she and Edward, the one that Loves Bella the most might be apprehensive about her being changed so young.

but that's just my two cents

Maybe I am not understand you lovely ladies

I was 18 when I got married almost 19 and we just celebrated our 9 year anniversary I wanted children for when I was like 8 and I have two girls not the way I planned my family but it is the cards I was dealt. But I have no regrets about getting married or having children. You will all cringe when I say this I wanted 8 kids but my husband did not so we compromised on 6. things have changed not that I do not want that many anymore it is just that I am getting older and it takes us forever to have kids so I will probably never get my 6 or 8 kids I also at one point thought maybe I don’t want that many after I had my second she has been now walk in the park and no I would still have that many the only thing that is stopping me is my pregnancy and that I am getting older and my kids are spaced out already so far.

But I also agree I babysat a lot and thought I was wise when it came to children so in away you can say I was sure of myself well my first came and I was not prepared for what she brought and same with the second one they are both very different.

I never had to raise my parents but did have to grow up faster then I want because my mom went back to work and she was just tired all of the time so I had to step up and help with my siblings.

My mom once told me that my husband and I were not the normal newly weds we were like and old couple we both had to grow up my husband had to take over his parent’s bills and other things in his teenager life...

So I guess what I a trying to say is that I agree that some teenagers can not make that choice and shouldn’t Also though teenagers should not have to take care of there parents either. There are some out there that do know what they want and have a pretty good idea. I also think could make the decision about becoming a vampire and a parent but then there are some that can't and shouldn't

I guess to me maybe I read the books different after eclipse Bella has seen both sides and does realize that she had to perfect relationships to pick from and that is more then some of us get in life.

Rosalie I think was right in telling Bella her story and letting her know but I just don't see them the same Rosalie does want children and I just don't think Bella does she saw to black haired children and she said it was nice but she wanted Edward so I guess that tells me she is okay with out them because if she really wanted them I think she would have picked Jacob because she knows she can not have kids with Edward.


Okay I hope this makes sense and that I did not offend anyone it always sounds better in my head and then I start typing and mess it up

So sorry

Amie, thanks for sharing your story. It reminds me of my parents. They wanted a houseful of kids, but my mom just physically couldn't handle the strain of pregnancy; so, there are only 2 of us. I'm sorry you didn't get to realize your dream, but hope you may get more opportunities. I think my story is different because people are different. It is wrong for Rosalie to assume that Bella would want the same things, but it right for her to remind Bella that there may be things she hadn't thought of. My first college major was one that would have moved me around the globe. I hadn't realized how much I would regret being far away from my family at that time. I traveled a lot, but weeks vs. months is completely different. After spending 2 months abroad, I changed my major to a career that kept me close to home. Now that Bella has thought about the future, I hope Rosalie can respect her choice.