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Leah Clearwater
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Amie
Volturi Mom


Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Posts: 1554
Location: Idaho

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leah is really another character I would like to get to know more about.

I feel for her. Which is weird because I don’t know very much about her but I would like to know about her?
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Pixie
Volturi Mom


Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 2037
Location: Houston waiting for Jasper on 45

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shimmerskin wrote:
Pixie wrote:
She is also the ONLY other person to have her broken because of vampires, she understands his pain.


You're right! Good one. Do you think the pain is still so raw and that's why she is not only NOT being helpful to Jacob, she's actively spiteful? Once the pain has blunted somewhat, do you think she'll bring forth some compassion and use her own experience to help Jacob deal with his? Or is she too far gone in bitterness and despair to be able to approach anyone else who is in pain? Like maybe it's simply too much to bear because seeing (and being forced to feel) Jacob's hurt keeps her own wounds fresh and throbbing.

Maybe that's why Leah was so nasty on the cliff. She wanted to drive Jake away because his heartache prevents hers from healing.


Darn I answered this last night, but then the site went screwy...so I guess it ate my post.

I think its a few things -

1- Leah cares about Jacob, IMO its a brother/sister kind of relationship. They grew up together(she probably hung out with R&R, while the boys hung out) so Jacob is like her little brother as well. The the pack mentality is brotherly- so why wouldn't she feel the same way?

2- Like I stated in the post above- Leah just had her heart ripped open again. Once she changed she learned the truth about her and Sam. She is hurting-I cant imagine the guys are being compassionate about her feelings. I image they are acting the same way, she acted towards Jacob.

3.The werewolf change has been the hardest on her- She lost her first love, lost her dad, and she has to carry the burden of being a werewolf. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad, if she had someone to talk to.... but she is completely alone.

4. She feels guilty about what happened to Jacob.
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cataclysm
Newborn


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pixie wrote:
snip
Do you think the pack of guys go easy on her when she is upset about Sam? I don't, they are probably telling her to get over, there was nothing he could do. Sure the break up happened a few years ago, but since changing(which was only a few weeks ago) she has learned Sam wasn't a beep- He really did lover her, and it hurt him to leave her and lie to her- that just reopened the wound.


Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to castigate Leah. I actually really like her character and hope we learn more about her. (Hopefully her story will get told in further detail too). What I'm saying is that right now she is very bitter. It doesn't mean she'll stay that way forever. In fact it seems like she's being set up for her own hero's journey. As for the boys in the pack not being understanding as they could be...you're probably right. They don't quite understand what she's going through, but right now she's lashing out at people. It may make it a little less easier to see her side of things.

Quote:
snip I mentioned this earlier in this thread(I think)- Edwards pov isn't always correct- I think Leah was thinking those things on purpose- she knows hes a mind reader. I would have loved to known the pack comments when they had to smell them- but Leah dislikes Bella it's safer to think about something else, than what she really thinks of her.



I wanted more details during the scent 'scene' too. Maybe we'll get more of the werewolf POV in BD. However, I'm still inclined to think Edward was right. In the epilogue, Jacob's comments about the way she'd changed over time (still hate the bitter "harpy" line) suggests that Leah isn't that easy to get along with these days (with good reason).

Quote:
Quote:
It's also possible that SM may not have felt comfortable writing from a boy's POV, so at first the epilogue may have been from leah's POV then evolved into Jacob's POV.
She has mentioned, that she choose Jacobs POV because it came through strongly at this time.


Agreed, I found SMs quote on this at the Stephenie says site.


Quote:
Quote:
I'd forgotten that Quil and Sam were pretty much guaranteed to change because they had 'wolf' blood on both sides of their family. So do Leah and Seth. I still think it may be important that they're related to both the Blacks and the Uleys.

Where does it say Quil and Sam are 2-bloodline decedents? Quil possibly because of they way Jacob phrased something in NM but the only for sure 2-bloodline pack members are Jacob(Ateara, Black) Leah and Seth(Black, Uley).



Sorry, I didn't mean to say that Sam was a double lined descendent. It was a typo. I meant to put Jake's name instead of Sam's. I assumed Quil was a double lined descendent based on a quote on page 346 in New Moon
"Because Ephraim and Quil were in the last pack. Levi Uley was the third. It's in my blood on both sides. I never had a chance. Like Quil doesn't have a chance."

Truthfully, it doesn't say what other side Quil got it from. I just assumed that he had because Jacob mentioned his own lineage. I think what the "Like Quil doesn't have a chance" line refers to is the fact that Quil had already been showing signs of the change. Not that he had wolf blood on both sides of his family. Sorry if I created alot of confusion with that assumption.
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sunshine
Topaz Vampire


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 1645
Location: Neveda

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that Leah is harboring LOTS of bitterness, and it is a lot easier to make someone else feel bad than to try to feel better yourself. Do you think the reason Leah hates/dislikes Bella is the whole vampire thing or do you think that maybe she was starting to get over Sam. When I say getting over Sam do you think she might have been starting to have feelings for Jacob (this could've been happening even before she phased)? To go through heartache like that twice...once having the man you love imprint on someone else, and then not having your feelings returned by another? I would be bitter too! I do hope that Leah is not a "filler"character, but that we will learn more about her too. She has too many interesting things about her!
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cataclysm
Newborn


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunshine wrote:
I agree that Leah is harboring LOTS of bitterness, and it is a lot easier to make someone else feel bad than to try to feel better yourself. Do you think the reason Leah hates/dislikes Bella is the whole vampire thing or do you think that maybe she was starting to get over Sam. When I say getting over Sam do you think she might have been starting to have feelings for Jacob (this could've been happening even before she phased)? To go through heartache like that twice...once having the man you love imprint on someone else, and then not having your feelings returned by another? I would be bitter too! I do hope that Leah is not a "filler"character, but that we will learn more about her too. She has too many interesting things about her!


I'll state my bias first. I am not a Jacob/Leah shipper. Having said that, it's possible that Leah could have feelings for Jacob. However, from the epilogue in Eclipse I didn't get the impression that she was over Sam. (Jacob's comments about her 'fixation' on Sam being a confusing thing for the pack mentality)

As Pixie and others have pointed out -she's got reason to be resentful of Bella and the vampires. Their presence set things in motion such that she lost Sam, lost her father, and became a werewolf herself. I hope she isn't a filler character either. I want to know more about her and the rest of the pack as well as other smaller characters including Angela.
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sunshine
Topaz Vampire


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 1645
Location: Neveda

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Her "fixation" with sam could've been a cover for growing feelings for Jacob. I'm sure if that were happening she wouldn't want the pack to know, and an easy fix would be to keep obsessing over Sam Very Happy ! I am not a Jacob/Leah shipper either...stranger things have happened though. I think that Leah's bitterness will keep her alone for a long time just like Jacobs love for Bella will keep him alone too.
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Shimmerskin
Volturi Mom


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2758
Location: Revolving around a MIDNIGHT SUN...

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, even if she is filler she's really good filler. I like that about Twilight. Even the most incidental characters like Mike Newton's mother are so well-drawn they make more than a passing impression. We've seen Mrs. Newton, what, once? But from that we know a lot about her parenting technique, her sense of the importance of having a personal style, of making a statement; her position in the family and in the family business. I can even hear the inflections in her voice.

Leah is a strong character, the kind that usually does end up being more than filler or a plot device, but if she never gets another sentence devoted to her she has served an important purpose. Leah shows us what could have happened to Bella in a future with Jake should he eventually imprint; she shows us very blatantly the same soul-corroding bitterness that Jacob is trying so hard to outrun (things Jacob hasn't wanted Bella--and by association, us--to see too clearly); and she shows us yet another example of what life is like for females in a male-dominated society, and that's an important point both for the werewolves but also in regard to Bella's choice.

Equality seems to exist easily and effortlessly among the vampires; there don't seem to be any gender-defined or gender-restricted roles among them. Maybe this is because female vampires don't have limitations of strength, and childbearing is not an issue, hence there is no physically determined division of tasks or responsibilities.

It isn't that simple with the werewolves. For one thing, it never occurred to them that anyone but males could lead and protect the tribe/pack. Even their long-ago savior and the reason they still exist remains anonymous, though her husband and son are remembered by name. For another, as the first girl to break through that barrier, Leah is the nexus of all the confusion, anxiety, and discomfort that this revelation must generate throughout the pack. And for another, it's up to her alone to prove a girl makes as good a werewolf as a boy, and to dispel any notions of unstable temperament resulting from gender. Paul can be a hothead and he's just...an amusing hothead. But if Leah is a hothead, it's because she's a dangerously emotional female. The pressue on her must be close to unbearable, and she's got no outlet to relieve it and no privacy in which to get used to it.

Leah has a terribly difficult job, not only as a werewolf but as the first (and only) female warrior in a traditionalist, patriarchal culture. Neither she nor any other member of that culture has been prepared for this eventuality. No one quite knows how to act around her or how to treat her. If they try to make her just one of the boys, that's denying who and what she is; if they try to treat her as something separate and different, that's obstructing the unity and efficacy of the pack.

Leah finds herself in an untenable position. The tribe finds itself plunged, flailing, into a brand new era. Meanwhile, the vampires are facing a much easier transition, one they're well-prepared for. And for Bella's part, had she chosen Jake she could have assimilated nicely without having to take on a strange new role as Leah has done; by choosing Edward she is moving into a situation where she'll be assisted and protected every step of the way; either way, she was assured a position of belonging and an identity she had chosen for herself. Once again, who is more likely to come up roses from the consequences of Bella's arrival in Forks--the pack or the coven; Leah or Bella?

Is it any wonder Leah "dislikes" Bella? I have a feeling that's a very mild word for what she's thinking!
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sunshine
Topaz Vampire


Joined: 20 Jan 2008
Posts: 1645
Location: Neveda

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nicely put Shimmerskin! I hadn't quite looked at it that way.Thanks for the great insight!!
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cataclysm
Newborn


Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wonderful post shimmerskin. Great analysis of Leah and a good beginning analysis on the vampire pack vs wolf pack mentality. Makes me look forward to Breaking Dawn even more.
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Shimmerskin
Volturi Mom


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2758
Location: Revolving around a MIDNIGHT SUN...

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, you two. You know, I've actually resented BD a little bit because I'd rather have MS. I'm better equipped to wait a while longer for the end of the TW saga because turning that last page will be as traumatic for me as the last page of HP7 was. Even more, I'm avid, no, desperate, no, FRANTIC for MS. I would simply rather have TW from Edward's POV sooner instead of later, I'm just that crazy in love with him.

BUT, you're right. As summer draws nearer I'm looking more and more eagerly forward to what's going to be revealed in BD. Along with all the "big stuff" I really am excited to see more of the intricacies of the coven and the pack, and whether Leah's story will figure into all of that.

How happy I would be
If only I could see
A midnight sun
With a breaking dawn
Simultaneously!
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AmyO
Team Alice Event Coordinator Leader


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 3359
Location: Shredding and Burning in Utah

PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

W-O-W! Shimmerskin- that's an amazing analysis of Leah and the pack vs. coven. I certainly never would have looked that deeply at Leah.

Thank you for that.

Shimmerskin wrote:
How happy I would be
If only I could see
A midnight sun
With a breaking dawn
Simultaneously!

I'm going to second the motion!
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Pixie
Volturi Mom


Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 2037
Location: Houston waiting for Jasper on 45

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sunshine wrote:
Her "fixation" with sam could've been a cover for growing feelings for Jacob. I'm sure if that were happening she wouldn't want the pack to know, and an easy fix would be to keep obsessing over Sam Very Happy ! I am not a Jacob/Leah shipper either...stranger things have happened though. I think that Leah's bitterness will keep her alone for a long time just like Jacobs love for Bella will keep him alone too.


What strange things? I haven't read anything that would lead me to believe they will be a couple. I have read a lot of speculation as to what something might mean.
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Pixie
Volturi Mom


Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 2037
Location: Houston waiting for Jasper on 45

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shimmerskin great post-

I disagree with a little part of it, but that is because I don't see Leah as being "bitter", not in the cynical sense anyway.

edited to fix a typo
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Last edited by Pixie on Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Shimmerskin
Volturi Mom


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2758
Location: Revolving around a MIDNIGHT SUN...

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pixie wrote:
Shimmerskin great post-

I disagree with a little part of it, but that is because I don't see Leah as being "bitter", not in they cynical sense anyway.


Acid, then? She's certainly acid-tongued Wink

I can understand how she would be bitter, if only temporarily, after everything she has lost. Bitter, meaning that life just has a bad taste these days.
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Leesa
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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 1937
Location: Bloomingdale's, waiting for Alice to make up her mind

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shimmerskin - amazing. I always had something in the back of my mind about Leah, but I had not really taken the time to figure out exactly what that was.........your post gave me much insight.
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