cataclysm wrote:

ETA: In fact, Leah is related to both the previous alpha(Black) and beta(Uley) wolves of the pack. Interesting.

Very interesting for both her and Seth- She is also older than most of the males, so why did it take her so long to change? Why was Seths change unexpected?

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"Throw it out the window"- Jacob

Pixie wrote:

cataclysm wrote: ETA: In fact, Leah is related to both the previous alpha(Black) and beta(Uley) wolves of the pack. Interesting. Very interesting for both her and Seth- She is also older than most of the males, so why did it take her so long to change? Why was Seths change unexpected?

I think it was mentioned that Seth's change (and Collin and Brady?) were unexpected b/c they were so young. I think others pointed out that the influx of newborn vampires into the area brought their change on early. Maybe the combination of her personal anguish, having alpha/beta lineage and the influx of newborn vamps was enough to make Leah change too?

cataclysm wrote:

I think it was mentioned that Seth's change (and Collin and Brady?) were unexpected b/c they were so young. I think others pointed out that the influx of newborn vampires into the area brought their change on early. Maybe the combination of her personal anguish, having alpha/beta lineage and the influx of newborn vamps was enough to make Leah change too?

But Jacob mentions in NM there is no certain age, he was older than the others.... Seth is about a year younger than Jacob,and two lined blood descendents have no chance. -just seems like Seth wouldn't be a surprise.

When Embry, Jacob, Leah, Seth and Quil changed- the only vampire presences was from Laurent and Victoria, both could have easily been handled by the pact.

From stuff Steph has said, and the time line- it doesn't look like the newborn Army was "created" until around May. Riley could have been in Seattle though.... The others changed 2 months prior, so that doesn't add up.

I don't believe its the vampires, its just interesting how different things start adding up.

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"Throw it out the window"- Jacob

cataclysm wrote:

From the SM Q&A archive on TM Quote: TM: Who is Harry's grandfather? Steph: Harry Clearwater is a Black on his mother's side. (Sue Clearwater is a Uley on HER mother's side.) This made me think 1) Based on her Black lineage, Leah may be a candidate for pack leader and 2) It's possible Sam didn't imprint on her b/c they're too closely related (Emily's her second cousin right? So Emily would be even further removed genetically from Sam) ETA: In fact, Leah is related to both the previous alpha(Black) and beta(Uley) wolves of the pack. Interesting.

I don't think she could be pack leader because that runs through the father's lineage, not the mother's....correct? I'll have to go check Eclipse again.

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Pixie wrote:

But Jacob mentions in NM there is no certain age, he was older than the others.... Seth is about a year younger than Jacob,and two lined blood descendents have no chance. -just seems like Seth wouldn't be a surprise.

Jacob does say in the book that the reason he was so late in changing was because he was so happy with Bella. He never got angry enough to lose control and change. Like the pressure had been there building and building or something. Seth probably had plenty of anger to fuel his change, not sure about Collin and Brady.

Pixie wrote:

When Embry, Jacob, Leah, Seth and Quil changed- the only vampire presences was from Laurent and Victoria, both could have easily been handled by the pact. From stuff Steph has said, and the time line- it doesn't look like the newborn Army was "created" until around May. Riley could have been in Seattle though.... The others changed 2 months prior, so that doesn't add up. I don't believe its the vampires, its just interesting how different things start adding up.

Not sure what's going on with that. I'm wondering if there are other vamps about (possibly sponsored by the Volturi) and somehow shielding themselves from Alice.

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Pluckie for President!!!!

Onyx wrote:

Not sure what's going on with that. I'm wondering if there are other vamps about (possibly sponsored by the Volturi) and somehow shielding themselves from Alice.

But why would they be there during NM? All those changes happened before Bella went to Volterra.

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"Throw it out the window"- Jacob

Pixie wrote:

Onyx wrote: Not sure what's going on with that. I'm wondering if there are other vamps about (possibly sponsored by the Volturi) and somehow shielding themselves from Alice. But why would they be there during NM? All those changes happened before Bella went to Volterra.

I don't know. I just think the Volturi have a much bigger role in the story than just the "enforcers."

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Pluckie for President!!!!

Onyx wrote:

I don't know. I just think the Volturi have a much bigger role in the story than just the "enforcers."

Possibly, it would explain the things that dont add up. I think something else is causing the change :/ not sure what though.

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"Throw it out the window"- Jacob

Onyx wrote:

The only "uplifting" thing in her life right now has underwire...

HAHAHA!!! Ok, that was so funny.

Shimmerskin wrote:

*She had a great love/She lost her love and was publicly humiliated into the bargain *She had her life mapped out/She is helpless to change what she is, or what her future now holds *She had someone she loved like a sister/Her 'sister' "betrayed" her *She had a father and a family/Her father is dead, her mother's a widow, her brother's a wolf, her family will never be the same *She had autonomy/She is in thrall to the pack mentality *She had privacy/Her thoughts are not her own anymore *She was on an equal footing with friends/She has to prove herself amongst bigger, stronger cohorts *She was becoming a woman/She has become a werewolf, with no other female werewolves to guide her *She was happy/She is bereft, bitter, and angry

Because of the vampires Leah carries a tragedy in her life, well... not just one.... a lot of tragedies! Her whole life is a tragedy. I would be angry at Bella too because these things haven't happened to her and she has the love of two boys and she also has a mother and a father. Leah has nothing but his mother. Poor Leah.... really...........

It would be great if she imprints on/falls in love with Jacob but how painful it'd be if it's unrequited love. Oh Leah..

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by nopamuk @ LJ

So I have a Leah question...it doesn't have anything to do with her changing but I was told this was the place to discuss it, so forgive me that it is a bit off teack. Why was Leah on the cliff with Jacob? Why not Quil or Embry? Was she just there to tell him to stop thinking of Bella or was there something more there? What do you ladies think?

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"Yeah, it's an off day when I don't get somebody telling me how edible I smell."

sunshine wrote:

So I have a Leah question...it doesn't have anything to do with her changing but I was told this was the place to discuss it, so forgive me that it is a bit off teack. Why was Leah on the cliff with Jacob? Why not Quil or Embry? Was she just there to tell him to stop thinking of Bella or was there something more there? What do you ladies think?

This is exactly the place to discuss all things "Leah" so no need to apologize for your question

Are you asking about the epilogue to Eclipse when Jacob is trying to avoid everyone and Leah is making a pest of herself?

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sunshine wrote:

So I have a Leah question...it doesn't have anything to do with her changing but I was told this was the place to discuss it, so forgive me that it is a bit off teack. Why was Leah on the cliff with Jacob? Why not Quil or Embry? Was she just there to tell him to stop thinking of Bella or was there something more there? What do you ladies think?

I have a feeling that Leah and Jacob are closer than we think- not as a couple, but more of a brother and sister type love. She is also the ONLY other person to have her heart broken because of vampires, she understands his pain.

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"Throw it out the window"- Jacob

sunshine wrote:

So I have a Leah question...it doesn't have anything to do with her changing but I was told this was the place to discuss it, so forgive me that it is a bit off teack. Why was Leah on the cliff with Jacob? Why not Quil or Embry? Was she just there to tell him to stop thinking of Bella or was there something more there? What do you ladies think?

I guess it could be a few things:

-As others have pointed out, Leah being on the cliff may be foreshadowing them being a couple

-As Pixie pointed out, Leah lost someone to imprinting too (yes, I also consider what Bella and Edward have to be a form of 'imprinting). She knows how Jake feels. She's a bit of a foil/warning for him though. She's grown very bitter from the things that have happened to her. What she is at that point in the story could represent a possibility of what Jake could become.

-Their conversation showed more of the setbacks of the the 'pack mind'. Leah was freaked out by dreaming about Bella. Jacob pointed out that the guys didn't like being caught up in Leah's thoughts about Sam. This later flowed into Jake's hatred of being pitied by his packmates when they found out about the invitation.

-Leah also said some mean things the other guys probably wouldn't say: mentioning a funeral might be better than a wedding, the leechlover comment, etc. Earlier in the book Edward had pointed out that Leah was a bit of a 'rabblerouser' within the pack. ETA: Quil, Embry, etc also probably knew and accepted that Jacob didn't want to be bothered at that time.

-It's also possible that SM may not have felt comfortable writing from a boy's POV, so at first the epilogue may have been from leah's POV then evolved into Jacob's POV.

I'd forgotten that Quil and Sam were pretty much guaranteed to change because they had 'wolf' blood on both sides of their family. So do Leah and Seth. I still think it may be important that they're related to both the Blacks and the Uleys.

Pixie wrote:

She is also the ONLY other person to have her broken because of vampires, she understands his pain.

You're right! Good one. Do you think the pain is still so raw and that's why she is not only NOT being helpful to Jacob, she's actively spiteful? Once the pain has blunted somewhat, do you think she'll bring forth some compassion and use her own experience to help Jacob deal with his? Or is she too far gone in bitterness and despair to be able to approach anyone else who is in pain? Like maybe it's simply too much to bear because seeing (and being forced to feel) Jacob's hurt keeps her own wounds fresh and throbbing.

Maybe that's why Leah was so nasty on the cliff. She wanted to drive Jake away because his heartache prevents hers from healing.

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cataclysm wrote:

She's a bit of a foil/warning for him though. She's grown very bitter from the things that have happened to her. What she is at that point in the story could represent a possibility of what Jake could become.

Do you think the pack of guys go easy on her when she is upset about Sam? I don't, they are probably telling her to get over, there was nothing he could do. Sure the break up happened a few years ago, but since changing(which was only a few weeks ago) she has learned Sam wasn't a beep- He really did lover her, and it hurt him to leave her and lie to her- that just reopened the wound.

Quote:

-Leah also said some mean things the other guys probably wouldn't say: mentioning a funeral might be better than a wedding, the leechlover comment, etc. Earlier in the book Edward had pointed out that Leah was a bit of a 'rabblerouser' within the pack. ETA: Quil, Embry, etc also probably knew and accepted that Jacob didn't want to be bothered at that time.

I mentioned this earlier in this thread(I think)- Edwards pov isn't always correct- I think Leah was thinking those things on purpose- she knows hes a mind reader. I would have loved to known the pack comments when they had to smell them- but Leah dislikes Bella it's safer to think about something else, than what she really thinks of her.

Quote:

It's also possible that SM may not have felt comfortable writing from a boy's POV, so at first the epilogue may have been from leah's POV then evolved into Jacob's POV.

She has mentioned, that she choose Jacobs POV because it came through strongly at this time.

Quote:

I'd forgotten that Quil and Sam were pretty much guaranteed to change because they had 'wolf' blood on both sides of their family. So do Leah and Seth. I still think it may be important that they're related to both the Blacks and the Uleys.

Where does it say Quil and Sam are 2-bloodline decedents? Quil possibly because of they way Jacob phrased something in NM but the only for sure 2-bloodline pack members are Jacob(Ateara, Black) Leah and Seth(Black, Uley).

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"Throw it out the window"- Jacob