So, I have looked around here but didn't see anything so I thought I would put this out there.

Did Alice forsee Jasper attack Bella? Why not? I would assume that since they are super close, she would have seen that. Or was it because it was such a spur of the moment thing, with the cut and she can only see things once the person has decided? I just wondered if anyone else had wondered about this....

Here is another thought...since Edward has told Jasper to keep his distance, i assume Jasper is a constant threat to Bella, they are always saying he struggles the most with this way of life. It was just interesting to me, because he is so kind to her when they are taking her to Phoenix, and then he attacks her at the party. I know he is repentant afterwards, I just wonder why no one saw this ahead of time?????

Thoughts?

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I've always wondered a bit about Jasper and his sensitivity to the smell of humans. I think Alice didn't forsee him taking a lunge at Bella because she couldn't have predicted the papercut (not based on a decision) or Jasper's reaction (spur of the moment). It was really weird to me, though, seeing him distance himself from Bella after being so close to her in Phoenix without any (apparent) difficulty. Can't recheck TW, though, 'cause my neighbor still has it...

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Pluckie for President!!!!

I think that is does have to do with the fact that Jasper's decision was "spur of the moment" because Alice herself explains how she can't see someone's future until they make a decision. It's not like when Bella came to the party, he was thinking of drinking Bella's blood.

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Onyx wrote:

I've always wondered a bit about Jasper and his sensitivity to the smell of humans. I think Alice didn't forsee him taking a lunge at Bella because she couldn't have predicted the papercut (not based on a decision) or Jasper's reaction (spur of the moment). It was really weird to me, though, seeing him distance himself from Bella after being so close to her in Phoenix without any (apparent) difficulty. Can't recheck TW, though, 'cause my neighbor still has it...

I wonder about that myself. Jasper didn't seem to have any problem in Phoenix. He even physically touched her, so why after all that he had been through with her in closer proximity, would he have regressed to the point of attacking her?

urmylifenow wrote:

So, I have looked around here but didn't see anything so I thought I would put this out there. Did Alice forsee Jasper attack Bella? Why not? I would assume that since they are super close, she would have seen that. Or was it because it was such a spur of the moment thing, with the cut and she can only see things once the person has decided? I just wondered if anyone else had wondered about this.... Here is another thought...since Edward has told Jasper to keep his distance, i assume Jasper is a constant threat to Bella, they are always saying he struggles the most with this way of life. It was just interesting to me, because he is so kind to her when they are taking her to Phoenix, and then he attacks her at the party. I know he is repentant afterwards, I just wonder why no one saw this ahead of time????? Thoughts?

Remember Alice can see things, but most of the time it's when something is planned. It happen in a second with Jasper and Bella. Jasper didn't plan on attacking Bella, nor did Bella plan on giving herself a paper cut. So.. it was very believable for me that Alice was unable to predict that moment.
Just as when Bella jumped off the cliff. She saw her jump... but she couldn't read her mind. She couldn't see if it was suicide or "extreme sports".

nighttimepatronofthearts wrote:

Onyx wrote: I've always wondered a bit about Jasper and his sensitivity to the smell of humans. I think Alice didn't forsee him taking a lunge at Bella because she couldn't have predicted the papercut (not based on a decision) or Jasper's reaction (spur of the moment). It was really weird to me, though, seeing him distance himself from Bella after being so close to her in Phoenix without any (apparent) difficulty. Can't recheck TW, though, 'cause my neighbor still has it... I wonder about that myself. Jasper didn't seem to have any problem in Phoenix. He even physically touched her, so why after all that he had been through with her in closer proximity, would he have regressed to the point of attacking her?

I think because with Jasper, it really depends how thirsty he is. When he hasn't fed, his control is not as good, compared to his family.

DebraAnn wrote:

Remember Alice can see things, but most of the time it's when something is planned. It happen in a second with Jasper and Bella. Jasper didn't plan on attacking Bella, nor did Bella plan on giving herself a paper cut. So.. it was very believable for me that Alice was unable to predict that moment. Just as when Bella jumped off the cliff. She saw her jump... but she couldn't read her mind. She couldn't see if it was suicide or "extreme sports".

Remember too that Alice's "visions" are not an exact science. She can miss things because she might be paying too much attention to other things (like with the newborn in Bella's room).

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Here's what Steph had to say about Alice's visions-

Quote:

Steph: Alice's visions work two ways. 1) Absolutes. When someone makes a specific decision that they intend to follow through on, she gets a very clear, precise picture of the outcome. The nearer the event is, the more accurate her vision is. 2) Hazy possibilities. Alice gets some very vague glimpses of probabilities. When something major changes in the Cullens' world, Alice gets hard to interpret pictures of faraway possibilities. These visions often don't happen and sometime contradict each other entirely. For example, when Edward meets Bella, Alice sees two futures for Bella that cannot both happen--Bella dead, and Bella a vampire.

I had always assumed that Alice didn't see Jasper attack because it was a split second decision on Jasper's part but with that whole hazy possibilities thing now I'm not as sure. Maybe she was aware of the possibility of him attacking Bella but that is kind of a possibility for all of them, even Edward, so she hadn't worried about it too much.

Just to add a little bit more to think about, this is what Steph had to say about the behind the scenes of the birthday party-

Quote:

Rose and Emmett just got out of the way of temptation. Esme followed Jasper, and Edward and Alice joined her later. He was feeling pretty horrible about himself, and also a teensy bit angry with Edward, too, for bringing a human into the Cullen circle where she could get hurt. (He cares about Bella, too, and knows that killing her would feel so much worse than killing a stranger. He doesn't like that he's been put in a position where a human is so important to them all.)

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AmyO wrote:

Just to add a little bit more to think about, this is what Steph had to say about the behind the scenes of the birthday party- Quote: Rose and Emmett just got out of the way of temptation. Esme followed Jasper, and Edward and Alice joined her later. He was feeling pretty horrible about himself, and also a teensy bit angry with Edward, too, for bringing a human into the Cullen circle where she could get hurt. (He cares about Bella, too, and knows that killing her would feel so much worse than killing a stranger. He doesn't like that he's been put in a position where a human is so important to them all.)

The fact that Jasper was kind to Bella in Phoenix was because he is a kind person who likes Bella - he doesn't want to hurt her. Also, in Phoenix, he was probably trying very hard to control himself. He did stay in the other room and only touched Bella when it was absolutely necessary. I always just imagined that it was a supreme sacrifice and very hard for him to do what he did in Phoenix. Also, it's not like just being around Bella makes him uncontrollably crazy - the only time he has ever outwardly shown a problem with Bella was when her blood caught him off guard. I think Stephenie's comment about Jasper being slightly angry at being put in a situation that is essentially setting him up for failure is a valid point. I've never, not for a moment, felt that Jasper was wrong for going after Bella the night of the party. He is a vampire who has trouble with humans and she was a sweet smelling and bleeding human that caught him off guard. I've always been glad that Bella understood that and never held it against Jasper.

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"She's one of us now." - Jasper Whitlock Hale

I compare this to something that used to happen with my rescued greyhound. She was the sweetest, most loving creature ever BUT she had been trained for racing on live bait What this meant for that poor doggie was that she could coexist peaceably with all our other animals, every size and every species imagineable, except every once in a while when one of the small dogs streaked by, something inside her would snap and before she knew what was happening she had grabbed and shaken it. She always immediately came to her senses and dropped the little one, hanging her head in shame and remorse, but the damage would be done.

I think Jasper's attack on Bella was similar. He knows what is right, he wants to do what is right, and he does...except every once in a while something unexpected can cause him to snap and mindlessly react according to his earliest conditioning, which tends to be our strongest influence. Just as my dog's pattern got set during puppyhood, Jasper's was as a newborn. And since, in both examples, that conditioning reinforced their natural prey drive, it is nearly impossible to overcome. So I really feel for poor Jasper

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Shimmerskin wrote:

I compare this to something that used to happen with my rescued greyhound. She was the sweetest, most loving creature ever BUT she had been trained for racing on live bait What this meant for that poor doggie was that she could coexist peaceably with all our other animals, every size and every species imagineable, except every once in a while when one of the small dogs streaked by, something inside her would snap and before she knew what was happening she had grabbed and shaken it. She always immediately came to her senses and dropped the little one, hanging her head in shame and remorse, but the damage would be done. I think Jasper's attack on Bella was similar. He knows what is right, he wants to do what is right, and he does...except every once in a while something unexpected can cause him to snap and mindlessly react according to his earliest conditioning, which tends to be our strongest influence. Just as my dog's pattern got set during puppyhood, Jasper's was as a newborn. And since, in both examples, that conditioning reinforced their natural prey drive, it is nearly impossible to overcome. So I really feel for poor Jasper

That is a really great analogy shimmerskin!! Not drinking Bella's blood is something he has to deal with all the time and like your greyhound, sometimes instincts takes over before they realize what has happened.

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Shimmerskin wrote:

I compare this to something that used to happen with my rescued greyhound. She was the sweetest, most loving creature ever BUT she had been trained for racing on live bait What this meant for that poor doggie was that she could coexist peaceably with all our other animals, every size and every species imagineable, except every once in a while when one of the small dogs streaked by, something inside her would snap and before she knew what was happening she had grabbed and shaken it. She always immediately came to her senses and dropped the little one, hanging her head in shame and remorse, but the damage would be done. I think Jasper's attack on Bella was similar. He knows what is right, he wants to do what is right, and he does...except every once in a while something unexpected can cause him to snap and mindlessly react according to his earliest conditioning, which tends to be our strongest influence. Just as my dog's pattern got set during puppyhood, Jasper's was as a newborn. And since, in both examples, that conditioning reinforced their natural prey drive, it is nearly impossible to overcome. So I really feel for poor Jasper

That's got to be one of the best comparisons I've ever read regarding poor Jasper, yes, I totally agree with you there. Fantastic.

Shimmerskin wrote:

I compare this to something that used to happen with my rescued greyhound. She was the sweetest, most loving creature ever BUT she had been trained for racing on live bait What this meant for that poor doggie was that she could coexist peaceably with all our other animals, every size and every species imagineable, except every once in a while when one of the small dogs streaked by, something inside her would snap and before she knew what was happening she had grabbed and shaken it. She always immediately came to her senses and dropped the little one, hanging her head in shame and remorse, but the damage would be done. I think Jasper's attack on Bella was similar. He knows what is right, he wants to do what is right, and he does...except every once in a while something unexpected can cause him to snap and mindlessly react according to his earliest conditioning, which tends to be our strongest influence. Just as my dog's pattern got set during puppyhood, Jasper's was as a newborn. And since, in both examples, that conditioning reinforced their natural prey drive, it is nearly impossible to overcome. So I really feel for poor Jasper

Terrific insight there, Shimmerskin. As usual!

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Pluckie for President!!!!

Shimmerskin wrote:

I compare this to something that used to happen with my rescued greyhound. She was the sweetest, most loving creature ever BUT she had been trained for racing on live bait What this meant for that poor doggie was that she could coexist peaceably with all our other animals, every size and every species imagineable, except every once in a while when one of the small dogs streaked by, something inside her would snap and before she knew what was happening she had grabbed and shaken it. She always immediately came to her senses and dropped the little one, hanging her head in shame and remorse, but the damage would be done. I think Jasper's attack on Bella was similar. He knows what is right, he wants to do what is right, and he does...except every once in a while something unexpected can cause him to snap and mindlessly react according to his earliest conditioning, which tends to be our strongest influence. Just as my dog's pattern got set during puppyhood, Jasper's was as a newborn. And since, in both examples, that conditioning reinforced their natural prey drive, it is nearly impossible to overcome. So I really feel for poor Jasper

OHHHH! That was good.....thanks missie!!! I also liked readings Steph's insight for the party....I guess I had always just thought of Rosalie's resentment to Bella, and not that Jasper would habor those feelings too....that was interesting.

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urmylifenow wrote:

OHHHH! That was good.....thanks missie!!! I also liked readings Steph's insight for the party....I guess I had always just thought of Rosalie's resentment to Bella, and not that Jasper would habor those feelings too....that was interesting.

Well, yeah, now that you mention it. Naturally, Jasper would resent anything that presented him with even more difficulty. He has a hard enough time staying on the wagon as it is, and along comes Bella. Think of how hard a recovering alcoholic struggles to stay sober, and then picture yourself waving an open bottle under their nose. They're NOT going to like you much, or the person who brought you home.

That's probably another reason why Carlisle tells Edward he's the only one who can reach Jasper (after the attack). I always interpreted it to mean Jasper needs to feel forgiven, and Edward is the one he has trespassed against the most, more even than Bella if you think about it. But you've made me wonder if Jasper needs Edward to come hash it out with him so Edward can be forgiven, too, for having trespassed against Jasper.

Wow. I never thought of it that way before. That Carlisle sure is smart. And now I'm thinking he may not have foreseen this accident but he probably anticipated it. He was prepared for it, at any rate, and handled it well. The only thing that didn't get handled was Edward's reaction, but could anyone have gotten through to Edward and persuaded him to stay in Forks? If Carlisle really did anticipate this or something like it (and he must have, because after three+ centuries he has seen it ALL) he probably chose not to challenge Edward's decision. With Rosalie and Jasper already upset about Bella's advent into their lives, and now Edward's melancholy, the family is in disarray. Far better to go along with Edward and take them all away.

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